Nobody is claiming that either NetBeans or Eclipse is perfect. However, Eclipse developers, alot of Eclipse developers, have found specifically that Eclipse runs slowly on non-Windows platforms. Specifically many have written in on the fact that side-by-side comparisons show that NetBeans is considerably faster on Linux. If you read the links - it is not only on JavaLobby, also on the Serverside and some of the most damning comments come from various Eclipse bug reports where benchmarks have been done highlighting the poor Eclipse performance on Linux. It is so extreme a problem that some are suggest a SWT ontop of Swing implementation to regain some performance. As for MacOS X implementations - I also run NetBeans 4.1 Beta on MacOS 10.3.8 and it's performance is very good. Nobody is claiming performance with a beta version. Wait until the it is released :) Cheers. Charles

The interesting thing is that eclipse developers go on subjective things - they are brainwashed by the ibm marketing machine. Set your mind, biases and ethos free... try netbeans you wont be disappointed.

Typing too fast - last line I meant to say is "Nobody is claiming *perfection with a beta version. Wait until it is released." Performance of NetBeans 4.1 Beta is very good on the MacOS X 10.3.8(on a PowerBook). For a balanced view on the Mac here is a URL to read on this : http://rollerweblogger.org/comments/roller/blog/netbeans_3_6_on_macosx I will leave a message for this fellow to try 4.1 Beta. Cheers. Charles

Wrong comparison. s/Netbeans/IDEA/ for a true comparison.

With regards to IDEA : As it turns out both Swing-based IDEs - NetBeans and IntelliJ IDEA are *both* growing. IntelliJ IDEA is also a good IDE. Nobody says it isn't. My blog focused on NetBeans. NetBeans 4.1 Beta is a radical makeover - fast performance, refactoring, profiler, j2se 5.0 support, j2ee 1.4 support, creator-like mobile plugin, uses ANT for underlying projects, etc. Alot of Eclipse developers are trying it and liking it. Cheers. Charles

my experience of eclipse 3 on os x is that it is definitely not usable. I would not recommand it to anybody

Eclipse on OS/X (via SWT) is based on Carbon, and will *never* have decent native fidelity unless it is ported to Cocoa. Netbeans might have a window-based menu bar, but its use of Swing at least gives it better overall fidelity.

Speed is not everything. Our choice of Eclipse was influenced by the market forces behind it. With BEA, Peoplesoft, Oracle and IBM using eclipse for their new tools, we'd be stupid not to use it. Ok, it may not be as fast, but it is open. Oh and btw, IBM let go of the Eclipse reins some time ago, so this no longer holds water. You choose what fits best in the environment you are working in.

Last I heard Oracle will not be doing Eclipse they are a member - but have decided to stay with their Swing-based IDE. And you know that PeopleSoft now is owned by Oracle. Or did you miss that :)<br><br> Reality is that membership does not mean much. Borland is a member and they just commited to continuing to develop JBuilder. <br><br> It's not just a matter of speed. Go take a look at the http://profiler.netbeans.org/ which describes the profiler and the http://www.netbeans.org/kb/articles/mobility.html which describes the mobile pack which has a Creator-like UI that allows you to quickly build mobile apps. Also if you care about free J2EE 1.4 support and right-now J2SE 5.0 support then NetBeans 4.1 should be of interest. There are some very nice other technologies that will make some heads turn. NetBeans is also about a compelling feature-set. Cheers. Charles

"What if the root of the problem wasn't SWT but GTK2?" That's the whole point of Swing. The problems of the underlying toolkit are much less likely to become the programmer's problem.